In this talk on AI, Soryu defines "God" as people's intuition of a shared higher consciousness that emerges from the collective. A hypersubject, you might say. I am suspecting therefore, that this is what he sees as AI role -- to speak the word of god.
I got confused by Soryu’s use of the word intelligence. I felt like he would use the word intelligence when what he was actually referring to was something more like intellect (the need to define, name and shape life into facts and categories). It would’ve been helpful to distinguish natural intelligence from intellect or knowing from understanding.
The discussion on scale and power was interesting. I can't scale to save my life, and I can only reject that kind of power personally.
Watching Soryu, yet again you have an enlightenment desiring person casting their eyes like searchlights up and side to side as they seek pure thought and expression but so unseeing that you worry that they will be hit by a bus. The desire to leave the cycle of life, death and rebirth basically seems to hate life. Finally the problem we seem to have is other (obviously unenlightened) people who do not think with thoughts, as you put it.
The thing about large language models it seems to me is that all of the information is time stamped yesterday. Iterative recapitulation of yesterday isn't going to change much of anything. So the counterfactuals are where to look for unfolding life energy.
Jul 13, 2023·edited Jul 13, 2023Liked by Bonnitta Roy
Oh, thank god, a creative, trustable, and charitable dialogue partner in Bonnitta Roy. The first time I heard Soryu speak about three years ago, I turned to my husband Wes and said, “Listening to this guy is LITERALLY like listening to one of Michael Scott’s monologues.” I’m dead serious - I’m not trying to be clever, nor snarky. The structure of sensemaking is all but identical. #DunderMifflin
HI back, Bonnitta! Wes and I loved listening to this together and were even more impressed with and inspired by your How than your What, and especially the care and insight enacted as their relation. It’s something of a relief and source of gratitude for both of us to wit(h)ness the way your sensemaking lives in, ripens, and enriches the world. ❤️
Hi Bonnitta, I haven’t been tracking the AI developments closely and I can’t say I clearly understood all the distinctions being made in this dialogue, but I would like to express a concern that comes up for me as I listen to Soryu.
Soryu’s sensemaking seems to rest on an explicit and/or implicit claim to a special kind of spiritual/religious understanding. A kind of appeal to enlightenment / liberation as authority to a special kind of insight and seeing.
He seems to be applying this special understanding in how he presents his view and understanding of AI and its possibilities.
Now, when I listen to Soryu, I experience him as largely delusional.
Maybe I’m mistaken, but that’s my honest experience.
The phrase that keeps popping up in my mind is,
“Nobody is more delusional than when they think they are beyond delusion.”
As I take him in as best I can, I experience a form of delusional grandeur that concerns me.
If a delusional person believes they are Realized, I find it creates a kind of cognitive dissonance for the listener.
A sort of, “this sounds confused, but this person seems to have a strong conviction that the confusion lies outside themselves, and I know I feel a bit confused, so maybe I’m just confused about thinking this person is confused.”
That’s my two cents on listening to your dialogue. I hope it might be constructive or helpful to someone.
Before I go, I do want to tell you that I was moved by your patience, your humility, the way you played with imaginal evocations and dreams, your subtle yet loud championing for felt sensing, and the way your humanness weaved through… painfully watching hungry bears, caring for tomato plants, barking dogs, and the smile filled claim that they Want to bark!
Also, thanks for reflecting back how you experienced my part. Yes, I was somewhat intentional in wanting to dance with him outside his "clarity" as it were, a kind of "clarity" that is a mile deep and a nanometer wide. Piercing, yet going no-where. That Zen thing -- de-void.
I've had that feeling with Soryu, someties too -- I've often wonder if he is a madman. I call those kinds of conversations, which you can find in various places around the X-risk communities, "monstrous conversations." When I was up there last summer, I asked Soryu some clarifying questions to understand him better. Then I said "now I only have to decide if I can trust your view."
I want to understand his view, but I don't trust it.
Yeah, this is interesting. I almost had this sense that Soryu was so sort of speaking like an AI or ChatGTP. Juxtaposed to how I experienced Bonnie, which, similar to what you’ve shared, evoked within me a greater capacity to feel the depth and intimacy of my own humanity. A complex and unnamable kind of intelligence.
In this talk on AI, Soryu defines "God" as people's intuition of a shared higher consciousness that emerges from the collective. A hypersubject, you might say. I am suspecting therefore, that this is what he sees as AI role -- to speak the word of god.
https://www.monasticacademy.com/ai-residency/
I got confused by Soryu’s use of the word intelligence. I felt like he would use the word intelligence when what he was actually referring to was something more like intellect (the need to define, name and shape life into facts and categories). It would’ve been helpful to distinguish natural intelligence from intellect or knowing from understanding.
The discussion on scale and power was interesting. I can't scale to save my life, and I can only reject that kind of power personally.
Watching Soryu, yet again you have an enlightenment desiring person casting their eyes like searchlights up and side to side as they seek pure thought and expression but so unseeing that you worry that they will be hit by a bus. The desire to leave the cycle of life, death and rebirth basically seems to hate life. Finally the problem we seem to have is other (obviously unenlightened) people who do not think with thoughts, as you put it.
The thing about large language models it seems to me is that all of the information is time stamped yesterday. Iterative recapitulation of yesterday isn't going to change much of anything. So the counterfactuals are where to look for unfolding life energy.
Oh, thank god, a creative, trustable, and charitable dialogue partner in Bonnitta Roy. The first time I heard Soryu speak about three years ago, I turned to my husband Wes and said, “Listening to this guy is LITERALLY like listening to one of Michael Scott’s monologues.” I’m dead serious - I’m not trying to be clever, nor snarky. The structure of sensemaking is all but identical. #DunderMifflin
https://youtu.be/WG3_OjuTDmU
BRANDY and WES! Hi!
HI back, Bonnitta! Wes and I loved listening to this together and were even more impressed with and inspired by your How than your What, and especially the care and insight enacted as their relation. It’s something of a relief and source of gratitude for both of us to wit(h)ness the way your sensemaking lives in, ripens, and enriches the world. ❤️
Hi Bonnitta, I haven’t been tracking the AI developments closely and I can’t say I clearly understood all the distinctions being made in this dialogue, but I would like to express a concern that comes up for me as I listen to Soryu.
Soryu’s sensemaking seems to rest on an explicit and/or implicit claim to a special kind of spiritual/religious understanding. A kind of appeal to enlightenment / liberation as authority to a special kind of insight and seeing.
He seems to be applying this special understanding in how he presents his view and understanding of AI and its possibilities.
Now, when I listen to Soryu, I experience him as largely delusional.
Maybe I’m mistaken, but that’s my honest experience.
The phrase that keeps popping up in my mind is,
“Nobody is more delusional than when they think they are beyond delusion.”
As I take him in as best I can, I experience a form of delusional grandeur that concerns me.
If a delusional person believes they are Realized, I find it creates a kind of cognitive dissonance for the listener.
A sort of, “this sounds confused, but this person seems to have a strong conviction that the confusion lies outside themselves, and I know I feel a bit confused, so maybe I’m just confused about thinking this person is confused.”
That’s my two cents on listening to your dialogue. I hope it might be constructive or helpful to someone.
Before I go, I do want to tell you that I was moved by your patience, your humility, the way you played with imaginal evocations and dreams, your subtle yet loud championing for felt sensing, and the way your humanness weaved through… painfully watching hungry bears, caring for tomato plants, barking dogs, and the smile filled claim that they Want to bark!
Also, thanks for reflecting back how you experienced my part. Yes, I was somewhat intentional in wanting to dance with him outside his "clarity" as it were, a kind of "clarity" that is a mile deep and a nanometer wide. Piercing, yet going no-where. That Zen thing -- de-void.
I've had that feeling with Soryu, someties too -- I've often wonder if he is a madman. I call those kinds of conversations, which you can find in various places around the X-risk communities, "monstrous conversations." When I was up there last summer, I asked Soryu some clarifying questions to understand him better. Then I said "now I only have to decide if I can trust your view."
I want to understand his view, but I don't trust it.
Yeah, this is interesting. I almost had this sense that Soryu was so sort of speaking like an AI or ChatGTP. Juxtaposed to how I experienced Bonnie, which, similar to what you’ve shared, evoked within me a greater capacity to feel the depth and intimacy of my own humanity. A complex and unnamable kind of intelligence.
🍿
What is that?
Popcorn emoji!