Listened to it twice. Found myself to be split. The metaphysician and the clinician. The first finds the nature of mind to be proximal, up hierarchical and the mind one has as a distal entity, filled with malware. The second, finds the minds we have to be neurotic or even deluded but still ’proximal’, and the liberated nature of the minds we could have as a tentative, distal, aspiration.
In one of our preliminary (unrecorded) conversations, that's exactly the distinction we had come to realize. Gregg is a clinical physician, I am a meta(cal)physician. This allowed us to go forward without having to find convergence in what we are about.
‘Emptiness is form, and form empties’ then? Shinzen talks about zero and one and the breadth one can ‘build’ through iterative cycles of expansion and contraction.
How rigorous and how beautiful the training that allows one to expand the breadth of one’s embrace...
"All this time we have been repeating the words 'know,' 'understand.' Yet we do not know what knowledge is," ― Plato. Great conversation Bonny, reminded me of problem solving and how women tend to be process oriented while men tend to be outcome oriented. It is one the first experiential lessons taught to people training to become telephone counselors at LifeLine here in Sydney, Australia. So it was fascinating to watch the developmental shift in Gregg's 'super-excited,' subconsciously orchestrated behavior as you guided him towards confessions of limitations.
It was refreshing to hear you say "there is no meaning crisis" on the parallax channel, in a conversation with two men who I suspect have heard John Vervaeke say "we are comprehensively prone to self-deception," without beginning to question 'how' that process works within each and every one of us.
May I offer three quotes I believe are worthy of consciousness contemplation:
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one. An optical delusion of consciousness, a kind of prison for us." — Albert Einstein
"The delusion is extraordinary by which we exalt language above nature." ― Alexander B Johnson, A TREATISE ON LANGUAGE
"For people to comprehend their conditioned self-deception scheme, they must try not to impose a perceptual expectation of mind-sight on the perception capacity of eye-sight." ― Daniel Goleman, Vital Lies, Simple Truths, The Psychology of Self Deception
I rarely write on my own Blog "frequencysoup" 😄 but just posted it there, since there are followers there that I don't know but I'm sure will like this.
This is too good...I've posted it on the Collective Presencing Telegram group, on another group that I belong to and sent it to everyone that I know who might be interested in such things.
I'm headed off to a weeklong meditation retreat...a perfect place to let it saturate and inhabit this portal/transducer.
Love you too! Thanks for recognizing the value in the conversation. Gregg and I have had several unrecorded conversations, and then I met him in Vermont. To be able to have this kind of conversation, required building intimacy, the old fasioned way. So... keep spreading the love. It is the only "platform" over which real communication is possible. Everything else is just simulation (like the machine).
...and I bathe the "bio-markers" of an infinite frequency "soup" in which an apparently orientating center itself seems to oscillate in and out of...perhaps experiencing or existence. Who knows. But it is an extraordinarily delicious soup, when that center is in the experiencing mode...or something like that.😉
ah to be sensible to discern categorial abstractions from pure abstractions. this was great, getting closer to groking pure abstractions. now i want to orient towards abstractions that are more pure and the litmus test would be to have the bio-marker available and see what is going on. this winds my curiousity.
within the feeling space is actually so much more, the whole pure abstraction pointer which is all where the insights came from and the categorical abstractions really only the retrospective mapping of these findings. so when i want to learn something do i learn just the categorical abstraction or do learn the pure abstraction beneath it. so if i learn somthing new that i am curious about it get into groking the pure abstraction and use the categorical abstraction as pointers or retrospective afterthoughts of that to even more grok it.
isn't that where curiousity becomes a real thing, where we anticipated and start to see the pure abstraction rather just the formal/categorical abstraction. i am trying to grok this :) I want to learn how to learn but also left with the question what to learn. groking Holly's litmus test is what i actually want to learn...
This was fun to watch. One of my litmus tests for whether an idea/theory/conversation/concept/story is worth following is how much it pierces my heart, and if it makes me fall more in love with the world. I appreciated some of the theoretical pointers, but what I enjoyed most was watching the playful banter ensue between you and Gregg. Thanks for the trigger warning--I wish my parents had fought more like you two. I probably would have laughed more as a kid :)
I wanted to exaggerate the fun part, because I knew I would catch his curiosity only if I could show him that my theoretical game was already "leveled up" to his edge -- and I didn't want to lose the audience in the process. Pursuasion is an art.
this litmus test i will find hard but maybe isomorphic to the one i mentioned above. their fighting was interesting, the eagernss in Gregg to clearify but also very open, expecially at the end. a fight that still lands :)
Yes, a fight that still lands. We had met in Vermont, and began this kind of sibling banter there. Easier to feel the generosity of the other when you are fighting and hugging at the same time.
Listened to it twice. Found myself to be split. The metaphysician and the clinician. The first finds the nature of mind to be proximal, up hierarchical and the mind one has as a distal entity, filled with malware. The second, finds the minds we have to be neurotic or even deluded but still ’proximal’, and the liberated nature of the minds we could have as a tentative, distal, aspiration.
In one of our preliminary (unrecorded) conversations, that's exactly the distinction we had come to realize. Gregg is a clinical physician, I am a meta(cal)physician. This allowed us to go forward without having to find convergence in what we are about.
‘Emptiness is form, and form empties’ then? Shinzen talks about zero and one and the breadth one can ‘build’ through iterative cycles of expansion and contraction.
How rigorous and how beautiful the training that allows one to expand the breadth of one’s embrace...
"All this time we have been repeating the words 'know,' 'understand.' Yet we do not know what knowledge is," ― Plato. Great conversation Bonny, reminded me of problem solving and how women tend to be process oriented while men tend to be outcome oriented. It is one the first experiential lessons taught to people training to become telephone counselors at LifeLine here in Sydney, Australia. So it was fascinating to watch the developmental shift in Gregg's 'super-excited,' subconsciously orchestrated behavior as you guided him towards confessions of limitations.
It was refreshing to hear you say "there is no meaning crisis" on the parallax channel, in a conversation with two men who I suspect have heard John Vervaeke say "we are comprehensively prone to self-deception," without beginning to question 'how' that process works within each and every one of us.
May I offer three quotes I believe are worthy of consciousness contemplation:
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one. An optical delusion of consciousness, a kind of prison for us." — Albert Einstein
"The delusion is extraordinary by which we exalt language above nature." ― Alexander B Johnson, A TREATISE ON LANGUAGE
"For people to comprehend their conditioned self-deception scheme, they must try not to impose a perceptual expectation of mind-sight on the perception capacity of eye-sight." ― Daniel Goleman, Vital Lies, Simple Truths, The Psychology of Self Deception
most excellent!
I rarely write on my own Blog "frequencysoup" 😄 but just posted it there, since there are followers there that I don't know but I'm sure will like this.
This is too good...I've posted it on the Collective Presencing Telegram group, on another group that I belong to and sent it to everyone that I know who might be interested in such things.
I'm headed off to a weeklong meditation retreat...a perfect place to let it saturate and inhabit this portal/transducer.
I love you, Bonnie.
Love you too! Thanks for recognizing the value in the conversation. Gregg and I have had several unrecorded conversations, and then I met him in Vermont. To be able to have this kind of conversation, required building intimacy, the old fasioned way. So... keep spreading the love. It is the only "platform" over which real communication is possible. Everything else is just simulation (like the machine).
THAT...was beautiful!
...and I bathe the "bio-markers" of an infinite frequency "soup" in which an apparently orientating center itself seems to oscillate in and out of...perhaps experiencing or existence. Who knows. But it is an extraordinarily delicious soup, when that center is in the experiencing mode...or something like that.😉
Thanks Bonnie
ah to be sensible to discern categorial abstractions from pure abstractions. this was great, getting closer to groking pure abstractions. now i want to orient towards abstractions that are more pure and the litmus test would be to have the bio-marker available and see what is going on. this winds my curiousity.
within the feeling space is actually so much more, the whole pure abstraction pointer which is all where the insights came from and the categorical abstractions really only the retrospective mapping of these findings. so when i want to learn something do i learn just the categorical abstraction or do learn the pure abstraction beneath it. so if i learn somthing new that i am curious about it get into groking the pure abstraction and use the categorical abstraction as pointers or retrospective afterthoughts of that to even more grok it.
isn't that where curiousity becomes a real thing, where we anticipated and start to see the pure abstraction rather just the formal/categorical abstraction. i am trying to grok this :) I want to learn how to learn but also left with the question what to learn. groking Holly's litmus test is what i actually want to learn...
This was fun to watch. One of my litmus tests for whether an idea/theory/conversation/concept/story is worth following is how much it pierces my heart, and if it makes me fall more in love with the world. I appreciated some of the theoretical pointers, but what I enjoyed most was watching the playful banter ensue between you and Gregg. Thanks for the trigger warning--I wish my parents had fought more like you two. I probably would have laughed more as a kid :)
I wanted to exaggerate the fun part, because I knew I would catch his curiosity only if I could show him that my theoretical game was already "leveled up" to his edge -- and I didn't want to lose the audience in the process. Pursuasion is an art.
this litmus test i will find hard but maybe isomorphic to the one i mentioned above. their fighting was interesting, the eagernss in Gregg to clearify but also very open, expecially at the end. a fight that still lands :)
Yes, a fight that still lands. We had met in Vermont, and began this kind of sibling banter there. Easier to feel the generosity of the other when you are fighting and hugging at the same time.